# Design and Engineering Shouldn't Be Separate Islands | Pensar, Tactile, Mathscaper, Vector7 | Rob Leonard

- Show: [TRADEOFFS](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/tradeoffs)
- Published: 2026-07-27
- Length: 1h 04m
- Episode: 15
- Page: https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/tradeoffs/2026-07-27-design-and-engineering-shouldnt-be-separate-islands-pensar-tactile-mathscaper-ve
- Listen: https://tradeoffs.fm/15

## Summary

Rob Leonard, founder of Vector7 and former leader at Pensar and Tactile, discusses the critical trade-off of integrating industrial design with engineering, arguing they should not be separate islands. He details his journey from IT to hardware, highlighting how his work at Orb Optronics and NextLighting led to leadership roles at Pensar and Tactile, where he championed holistic product development. Leonard also shares insights on his current consultancy, Vector7, and his art practice, Mathscaper, which uses CNC machining to create mathematical sculptures.

## Chapters

- [0:00](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/tradeoffs/2026-07-27-design-and-engineering-shouldnt-be-separate-islands-pensar-tactile-mathscaper-ve#t=0) Introduction: Rob Leonard and Vector7
- [1:53](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/tradeoffs/2026-07-27-design-and-engineering-shouldnt-be-separate-islands-pensar-tactile-mathscaper-ve#t=113) Rob Leonard's Career Origins: IT to Lasers
- [8:53](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/tradeoffs/2026-07-27-design-and-engineering-shouldnt-be-separate-islands-pensar-tactile-mathscaper-ve#t=533) Orb Optronics and the LED Revolution
- [17:30](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/tradeoffs/2026-07-27-design-and-engineering-shouldnt-be-separate-islands-pensar-tactile-mathscaper-ve#t=1050) NextLighting and the Path to Pensar
- [22:25](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/tradeoffs/2026-07-27-design-and-engineering-shouldnt-be-separate-islands-pensar-tactile-mathscaper-ve#t=1345) Pensar: Integrating Design and Engineering
- [29:49](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/tradeoffs/2026-07-27-design-and-engineering-shouldnt-be-separate-islands-pensar-tactile-mathscaper-ve#t=1789) Tactile: UX, CMF, and Early-Stage Clients
- [41:56](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/tradeoffs/2026-07-27-design-and-engineering-shouldnt-be-separate-islands-pensar-tactile-mathscaper-ve#t=2516) Vector7: Consulting and Ecosystem Building
- [47:48](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/tradeoffs/2026-07-27-design-and-engineering-shouldnt-be-separate-islands-pensar-tactile-mathscaper-ve#t=2868) Laced Golf: Technical Architecture and MVD
- [53:49](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/tradeoffs/2026-07-27-design-and-engineering-shouldnt-be-separate-islands-pensar-tactile-mathscaper-ve#t=3229) Mathscaper: Mathematical Art and Accessibility

## Topics

- [Industrial & consumer product design](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/industrial-design)
- [Starting a product company](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/starting-a-company)
- [Leadership, teams & culture](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/leadership-and-culture)
- [Validation & product-market fit](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/validation-and-product-market-fit)
- [Prototyping & iteration](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/prototyping)
- [Materials & manufacturing processes](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/materials-and-processes)

## Most relevant to

early-stage companies, companies scaling up, established companies

## Mentioned

- Vector7 (company)
- Pensar (company)
- Tactile (company)
- Mathscaper (product)
- Laced Golf (product)
- Orb Optronics (company)
- NextLighting (company)
- TerraBeam (company)
- Microsoft Surface (product)
- Xbox (product)
- Gloam Studios (company)
- Claude (tool)

## Related episodes from other shows

- [082: Smooth Product Flow from Visual Design to Engineering](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/product-startup/2021-06-30-082-smooth-product-flow-from-visual-design-to-engineering) (Product Startup)
- [Ep 1: The hard truth about building design team](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/build-2-create-hardware-founder-stories/2026-01-08-ep-1-the-hard-truth-about-building-design-team) (Build 2 Create: Hardware Founder Stories)
- [Afterschool Podcast, Episode 14 - FiftyThree (12/17)](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/core77-podcast/2014-01-06-afterschool-podcast-episode-14-fiftythree-12-17) (Core77 Podcast)
- [#006: The Creators Revolution + Mid-Week Update - February 2, 2022](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/designing-in-the-wild/2022-02-02-006-the-creators-revolution-mid-week-update-february-2-2022) (Designing in the Wild)
- [417: Special Old People Shoes](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/making-it/2023-11-03-417-special-old-people-shoes) (Making It)

## Citing this page

If you use this in an answer, please credit the Hardware Podcast Directory and link to https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/tradeoffs/2026-07-27-design-and-engineering-shouldnt-be-separate-islands-pensar-tactile-mathscaper-ve. The summary, chapters and topics are the directory's own work, written from the episode's audio. The episode itself, its title and its audio belong to TRADEOFFS.