# 116: The Last Detail with Jason Shellen

- Show: [Thoroughly Considered](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/thoroughly-considered)
- Published: 2024-09-12
- Length: 1h 00m
- Episode: 116
- Page: https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/thoroughly-considered/2024-09-12-116-the-last-detail-with-jason-shellen
- Listen: http://relay.fm/tc/116

## Summary

Jason Shellen, the founding product manager of Google Reader, discusses his long-term loyalty to the Patagonia Refugio 28L backpack, praising its thoughtful design, durability, and repairable warranty. He contrasts this with other bags like the Brown Buffalo and Timbuktu, noting how the Refugio balances versatility for travel and hiking with a functional, inoffensive aesthetic. Shellen also explores the broader industry trend of 'bike shedding' in bag design, where simple objects invite excessive customization, and reflects on the value of durable, repairable goods in an increasingly commoditized market.

## Chapters

- [0:07](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/thoroughly-considered/2024-09-12-116-the-last-detail-with-jason-shellen#t=7) Introduction: Jason Shellen and the Patagonia Refugio 28L
- [3:28](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/thoroughly-considered/2024-09-12-116-the-last-detail-with-jason-shellen#t=208) Design Details: Drain ports, zippers, and the evolution of the Refugio
- [8:55](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/thoroughly-considered/2024-09-12-116-the-last-detail-with-jason-shellen#t=535) The Patagonia Worn Wear Program and Repairability
- [12:46](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/thoroughly-considered/2024-09-12-116-the-last-detail-with-jason-shellen#t=766) Comparing Custom Bags: Brown Buffalo and Material Weight
- [16:44](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/thoroughly-considered/2024-09-12-116-the-last-detail-with-jason-shellen#t=1004) The Backpack as a 'Hot Hatch': Versatility vs. Specialization
- [25:32](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/thoroughly-considered/2024-09-12-116-the-last-detail-with-jason-shellen#t=1532) Aesthetic Signaling: Business Contexts and 'Cool' Factors
- [35:30](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/thoroughly-considered/2024-09-12-116-the-last-detail-with-jason-shellen#t=2130) The Rise of Sling Bags and Fanny Packs for Men
- [42:17](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/thoroughly-considered/2024-09-12-116-the-last-detail-with-jason-shellen#t=2537) Bike Shedding and Customization in Bag Design
- [50:29](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/thoroughly-considered/2024-09-12-116-the-last-detail-with-jason-shellen#t=3029) Good Design is Long Lasting: Durability and Environmental Impact

## Topics

- [Industrial & consumer product design](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/industrial-design)
- [Materials & manufacturing processes](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/materials-and-processes)
- [Sustainability & circular products](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/sustainability-and-circularity)
- [Pricing, margins & unit economics](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/pricing-and-unit-economics)

## Most relevant to

early-stage companies

## Mentioned

- Patagonia (company)
- Refugio 28L (product)
- Google Reader (product)
- Brown Buffalo (company)
- Timbuktu (company)
- Crumpler (company)
- Jack Spade (company)
- Peak Design (company)
- Belroy (company)
- Codopaxi (company)
- Specialized Bicycles (company)
- Viewori (company)

## Related episodes from other shows

- [Patagonia: Yvon Chouinard](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/how-i-built-this/2016-12-12-patagonia-yvon-chouinard) (How I Built This)
- [483: There Are Two Wolves Inside Me…](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/making-it/2025-05-16-483-there-are-two-wolves-inside-me) (Making It)
- [131: Why Doing Good with Your Hardware Product Matters](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/product-startup/2022-07-06-131-why-doing-good-with-your-hardware-product-matters) (Product Startup)
- [Osprey Packs: Mike Pfotenhauer](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/how-i-built-this/2023-02-20-osprey-packs-mike-pfotenhauer) (How I Built This)
- [8 - Evelio Mattos from Package Design Unbox'd](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/people-of-packaging/2019-10-01-8-evelio-mattos-from-package-design-unboxd) (People of Packaging)

## Citing this page

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