# #185 - Commercial Kitchen vs. Co-Man: Where to Make Your First $1M of Product

- Show: [The Startup CPG Podcast](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-startup-cpg-podcast)
- Published: 2025-03-04
- Length: 53m
- Episode: 128
- Page: https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-startup-cpg-podcast/2025-03-04-185-commercial-kitchen-vs-co-man-where-to-make-your-first-1m-of-product
- Listen: https://share.transistor.fm/s/7997f095

## Summary

Mott Smith, co-founder of Amped Kitchens, and Jaime Valenti-Jordan, CEO of Catapult Commercialization Services, discuss the strategic choice between using a commercial kitchen or a contract manufacturer (co-man) for early-stage food brands aiming for their first $1 million in sales. They highlight that commercial kitchens like Amped Kitchens (used by Beyond Meat and 4th & Heart) are ideal for iteration and learning, while co-mans require standardized, industrial-grade products and high volumes to be economically viable. The guests emphasize that cash flow management and understanding unit economics are the most critical factors, as scaling often reveals hidden costs in staffing, packaging, and ingredient sourcing that can break a business if not planned for.

## Outline

1. Introduction: Commercial Kitchens vs. Co-Manufacturers
2. Amped Kitchens: Infrastructure and Community
3. The Music Analogy: Iteration vs. Execution
4. Defining the Co-Man and Ingredient Specifications
5. Criteria for Choosing Production Models
6. Scaling Challenges: Staffing, Packaging, and Cash Flow
7. Unit Economics and the Reality of the First Million
8. Final Advice and Founder Decision Making

## Topics

- [Materials & manufacturing processes](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/materials-and-processes)
- [Pricing, margins & unit economics](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/pricing-and-unit-economics)
- [Manufacturing partners & offshoring](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/manufacturing-partners)
- [Scaling production](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/scaling-production)
- [Sourcing & supply chain](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/sourcing-and-supply-chain)

## Most relevant to

early-stage companies

## Mentioned

- Amped Kitchens (company)
- Catapult Commercialization Services (company)
- Beyond Meat (company)
- 4th & Heart (company)
- Zab's Hot Sauce (company)
- Chubby Snacks (company)
- Nowhere Bakery (company)
- Kanpai Foods (company)
- SQF (other)
- USDA (other)
- FISMA (other)
- Global Food Safety Initiative (other)

## Related episodes from other shows

- [Advice Line with Mark Ramadan of Sir Kensington's](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/how-i-built-this/2024-06-27-advice-line-with-mark-ramadan-of-sir-kensingtons) (How I Built This)
- [Advice Line with Katlin Smith of Simple Mills](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/how-i-built-this/2025-01-23-advice-line-with-katlin-smith-of-simple-mills) (How I Built This)
- [Live Episode! Milk Bar: Christina Tosi (2019)](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/how-i-built-this/2021-10-25-live-episode-milk-bar-christina-tosi-2019) (How I Built This)
- [Advice Line with Jim Koch of Boston Beer Company](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/how-i-built-this/2024-08-08-advice-line-with-jim-koch-of-boston-beer-company) (How I Built This)
- [Advice Line: Scaling Strategies](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/how-i-built-this/2025-05-22-advice-line-scaling-strategies) (How I Built This)

## Citing this page

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