# TDD: The Hard Parts - Getting Started with Test-Driven Development

- Show: [The Pragmatic Embedded Podcast](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast)
- Published: 2026-09-30
- Length: 45m
- Page: https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2026-09-30-tdd-the-hard-parts-getting-started-with-test-driven-development
- Listen: https://agileembeddedpodcast.com/episodes/tdd-the-hard-parts-getting-started-with-test-driven-development-rO4uSY6Z

## Summary

Jeff Gable and Luca Ingianni discuss the practical challenges of adopting Test-Driven Development (TDD) in embedded software, specifically addressing the difficulty of starting with a blank screen. They outline a process that begins with decomposing systems into modules, sketching test ideas as bullet points, and writing test outlines in plain English before implementing code. The hosts highlight how LLMs can help overcome the fear of the empty screen but create new traps by generating overwhelming or nonsensical test suites, requiring developers to review test code more thoroughly than production code to ensure it accurately reflects the desired module interface and behavior.

## Chapters

- [0:00](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2026-09-30-tdd-the-hard-parts-getting-started-with-test-driven-development#t=0) Introduction: The TDD Struggle and Episode Context
- [2:36](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2026-09-30-tdd-the-hard-parts-getting-started-with-test-driven-development#t=156) TDD as Implementation, Not Design Methodology
- [8:12](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2026-09-30-tdd-the-hard-parts-getting-started-with-test-driven-development#t=492) The Mental Leap: Calling Non-Existent Functions
- [11:22](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2026-09-30-tdd-the-hard-parts-getting-started-with-test-driven-development#t=682) Starting with Test Ideas and Bullet Points
- [17:59](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2026-09-30-tdd-the-hard-parts-getting-started-with-test-driven-development#t=1079) Two Traps: Hand-Coding Fear vs. LLM Overwhelm
- [23:44](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2026-09-30-tdd-the-hard-parts-getting-started-with-test-driven-development#t=1424) Turning Test Statements into Questions for Spikes
- [31:39](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2026-09-30-tdd-the-hard-parts-getting-started-with-test-driven-development#t=1899) Reviewing Test Code More Than Production Code
- [33:01](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2026-09-30-tdd-the-hard-parts-getting-started-with-test-driven-development#t=1981) Connecting TDD to Higher-Level Specs and Requirements

## Topics

- [Embedded firmware](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/embedded-firmware)
- [AI & machine learning](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/ai-and-machine-learning)
- [Debugging & failure analysis](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/debugging-and-failure-analysis)
- [Industrial & consumer product design](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/industrial-design)

## Most relevant to

early-stage companies

## Mentioned

- BaseRef (tool)
- Agile Embedded Academy (other)
- Pragmatic Embedded Podcast (other)

## Related episodes from other shows

- [30: Eventually Lightning Strikes (Repeat)](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2016-11-30-30-eventually-lightning-strikes-repeat) (Embedded.fm)
- [270: Broccoli Is Good Too](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2018-12-14-270-broccoli-is-good-too) (Embedded.fm)
- [109: Resurrection of Extreme Programming (Repeat)](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2018-10-12-109-resurrection-of-extreme-programming-repeat) (Embedded.fm)
- [30: Eventually Lightning Strikes](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2013-12-11-30-eventually-lightning-strikes) (Embedded.fm)
- [109: Resurrection of Extreme Programming](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2015-07-15-109-resurrection-of-extreme-programming) (Embedded.fm)

## Citing this page

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