# Scaling Agile

- Show: [The Pragmatic Embedded Podcast](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast)
- Published: 2023-12-05
- Length: 46m
- Page: https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2023-12-05-scaling-agile
- Listen: https://agileembeddedpodcast.com/episodes/scaling-agile-CQTHsXWQ

## Summary

Hosts Jeff Gable and Luca Njani discuss the challenges of scaling agile methodologies in large embedded product organizations, focusing on managing inescapable dependencies between cross-functional teams. They argue that the primary goal of scaling is to minimize coupling and risk by designing stable, high-level interfaces, such as hardware abstraction layers or specific API services, rather than forcing tight integration. The conversation emphasizes that interface stability and skill distribution should dictate where team boundaries are drawn to avoid 'parasitic communication' and unnecessary handoffs.

## Chapters

- [0:01](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2023-12-05-scaling-agile#t=1) Introduction: Defining Scaling and Dependencies
- [3:04](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2023-12-05-scaling-agile#t=184) The Problem with Traditional Agile at Scale
- [6:24](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2023-12-05-scaling-agile#t=384) Lean Manufacturing Analogies and Entropy
- [9:09](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2023-12-05-scaling-agile#t=549) Challenges: Risk, Communication, and Parasitic Handoffs
- [16:22](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2023-12-05-scaling-agile#t=982) The Golden Rule: Don't Scale if Possible
- [22:28](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2023-12-05-scaling-agile#t=1348) Designing Interfaces and Hardware Abstraction Layers
- [25:53](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2023-12-05-scaling-agile#t=1553) Determining the Cutoff Point Between Teams
- [32:13](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2023-12-05-scaling-agile#t=1933) Database Service Examples and Abstraction Levels
- [37:40](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2023-12-05-scaling-agile#t=2260) Choosing Interfaces Based on Stability and Skills
- [43:20](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2023-12-05-scaling-agile#t=2600) Conclusion and Preview of SAFe Framework

## Topics

- [Leadership, teams & culture](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/leadership-and-culture)
- [Embedded firmware](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/embedded-firmware)
- [Scaling production](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/scaling-production)
- [Mechanical engineering](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/mechanical-engineering)

## Most relevant to

companies scaling up

## Mentioned

- Jeff Gable (other)
- Luca Njani (other)
- Matt Cole (other)
- Superbird (company)
- SAFE (other)
- Oracle (company)
- Maria DB (other)

## Related episodes from other shows

- [440: Condemned to Being Perfect](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2023-01-13-440-condemned-to-being-perfect) (Embedded.fm)
- [#064 - To transform or not to transform your hardware company to an all agile one next year, with Balint Horvath, Switzerland](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-hardware-entrepreneur/2018-11-21-064-to-transform-or-not-to-transform-your-hardware-company-to-an-all-agile-one-n) (The Hardware Entrepreneur)
- [S7E14 Brad & Aaron | How To Accelerate The Speed of Engineering (Episode 3 of 3)](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/being-an-engineer/2026-03-27-s7e14-brad-aaron-how-to-accelerate-the-speed-of-engineering-episode-3-of-3) (Being an Engineer)
- [Scaling an IoT Business | Vutility's Stephen Prince | Internet of Things Podcast](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/iot-for-all-podcast/2023-10-17-scaling-an-iot-business-vutilitys-stephen-prince-internet-of-things-podcast) (IoT For All Podcast)
- [Scaling IoT for Enterprises | Ken Corless and Robert Schmid of Deloitte | E052 #IoTMakers](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/iot-for-all-podcast/2020-02-12-scaling-iot-for-enterprises-ken-corless-and-robert-schmid-of-deloitte-e052-iotma) (IoT For All Podcast)

## Citing this page

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