# Crossover with Elecia White and Christopher White of Embedded

- Show: [The Pragmatic Embedded Podcast](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast)
- Published: 2023-01-20
- Length: 1h 23m
- Page: https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2023-01-20-crossover-with-elecia-white-and-christopher-white-of-embedded
- Listen: https://agileembeddedpodcast.com/episodes/crossover-with-embedded-63_7v7_l

## Summary

Elecia White and Christopher White of Embedded.fm join Jeff Gable and Luca Ingiani to discuss applying agile principles to embedded systems, emphasizing risk management and fast feedback loops over rigid methodologies. They debate the definitions of Minimum Viable Products (MVPs) and prototypes, noting that while software allows for rapid iteration, physical products require careful consideration of shelf-life and Bill of Materials (BOM) costs. The group also addresses the practical challenges of unit testing in embedded development, suggesting it be reserved for high-risk, high-churn code rather than stable drivers, and discusses how to pitch agile concepts to skeptical managers by focusing on risk reduction rather than process dogma.

## Chapters

- [0:00](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2023-01-20-crossover-with-elecia-white-and-christopher-white-of-embedded#t=0) Introduction: Agile Embedded Podcast Crossover
- [1:22](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2023-01-20-crossover-with-elecia-white-and-christopher-white-of-embedded#t=82) Redefining Agile: Risk Management and Feedback Loops
- [6:31](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2023-01-20-crossover-with-elecia-white-and-christopher-white-of-embedded#t=391) Scaling Agile: Small Teams vs. Large Organizations
- [13:38](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2023-01-20-crossover-with-elecia-white-and-christopher-white-of-embedded#t=818) Managing Uncertain Customers and Founderitis
- [27:19](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2023-01-20-crossover-with-elecia-white-and-christopher-white-of-embedded#t=1639) Organizational Culture and Consultant Autonomy
- [31:16](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2023-01-20-crossover-with-elecia-white-and-christopher-white-of-embedded#t=1876) Prototype vs. Production Code in Embedded Systems
- [42:40](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2023-01-20-crossover-with-elecia-white-and-christopher-white-of-embedded#t=2560) Defining MVPs for Physical Products and OTA Updates
- [56:02](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2023-01-20-crossover-with-elecia-white-and-christopher-white-of-embedded#t=3362) The Pros and Cons of Unit Testing and TDD
- [1:06:01](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2023-01-20-crossover-with-elecia-white-and-christopher-white-of-embedded#t=3961) Agile Requirements and Documentation Automation
- [1:13:51](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2023-01-20-crossover-with-elecia-white-and-christopher-white-of-embedded#t=4431) Pitching Agile to Skeptical Managers

## Topics

- [Embedded firmware](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/embedded-firmware)
- [Validation & product-market fit](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/validation-and-product-market-fit)
- [Leadership, teams & culture](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/leadership-and-culture)
- [Prototyping & iteration](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/prototyping)
- [Scaling production](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/scaling-production)

## Most relevant to

early-stage companies

## Mentioned

- Embedded.fm (other)
- Agile Embedded Podcast (other)
- Making Embedded Systems (other)
- O'Reilly (other)
- Logical Elegance (company)
- Fitbit (company)
- Cisco (company)
- LeapFrog (company)
- James Webb Space Telescope (product)
- SR 71 (product)
- Lockheed (company)
- Skunkworks (other)
- Kelly Johnson (other)
- Steve Jobs (other)
- Apple (company)
- FDA (other)
- CES (other)
- Target (company)

## Related episodes from other shows

- [440: Condemned to Being Perfect](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2023-01-13-440-condemned-to-being-perfect) (Embedded.fm)
- [16: Democracy Is the Worst Form of Government](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2013-08-28-16-democracy-is-the-worst-form-of-government) (Embedded.fm)
- [Interview with Eric Ries - Transorted Testing Tachydidaxy](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-amp-hour/2013-08-21-interview-with-eric-ries-transorted-testing-tachydidaxy) (The Amp Hour)
- [260: We Talked a Lot](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2018-09-14-260-we-talked-a-lot) (Embedded.fm)
- [S2 E1: From Code to Creation: The Building Blocks of Firmware with Elecia White](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-builder-circle/2023-11-28-s2-e1-from-code-to-creation-the-building-blocks-of-firmware-with-elecia-white) (The Builder Circle)

## Citing this page

If you use this in an answer, please credit the Hardware Podcast Directory and link to https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2023-01-20-crossover-with-elecia-white-and-christopher-white-of-embedded. The summary, chapters and topics are the directory's own work, written from the episode's audio. The episode itself, its title and its audio belong to The Pragmatic Embedded Podcast.