# James Grenning on TDD

- Show: [The Pragmatic Embedded Podcast](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast)
- Published: 2022-08-24
- Length: 1h 01m
- Page: https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2022-08-24-james-grenning-on-tdd
- Listen: https://agileembeddedpodcast.com/episodes/james-grenning-on-tdd-VntrhmgE

## Summary

James Grenning, author of 'Test-Driven Development for Embedded C' and creator of a new self-paced online course, discusses the evolution and practical application of TDD in embedded systems. He explains the ZOMBIE acronym for deriving test cases, the importance of 'tracer bullets' to address project risks early, and why mocking should be used sparingly to avoid brittle tests. Grenning also reflects on the shift from Extreme Programming to Scrum, arguing that the latter often alienates engineers by ignoring core technical practices.

## Chapters

- [0:00](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2022-08-24-james-grenning-on-tdd#t=0) Introduction and James Grenning's Background
- [5:08](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2022-08-24-james-grenning-on-tdd#t=308) The Engineering Roots of TDD and Feedback Loops
- [11:04](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2022-08-24-james-grenning-on-tdd#t=664) Addressing Objections: Time, Cost, and Complexity
- [21:08](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2022-08-24-james-grenning-on-tdd#t=1268) The ZOMBIE Acronym for Test Discovery
- [25:53](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2022-08-24-james-grenning-on-tdd#t=1553) Prototyping with Tracer Bullets and Risk Reduction
- [33:54](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2022-08-24-james-grenning-on-tdd#t=2034) Challenges: Legacy Code, Tooling, and Mocking
- [46:52](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2022-08-24-james-grenning-on-tdd#t=2812) Agile vs. Extreme Programming and Scrum Critique
- [56:20](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2022-08-24-james-grenning-on-tdd#t=3380) New Self-Paced TDD Course and Conclusion

## Topics

- [Embedded firmware](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/embedded-firmware)
- [Prototyping & iteration](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/prototyping)
- [Debugging & failure analysis](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/debugging-and-failure-analysis)
- [Careers & education](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/engineering-careers-and-education)

## Most relevant to

established companies

## Mentioned

- Test-Driven Development for Embedded C (product)
- Unity (tool)
- Cyber Dojo (tool)
- Wingman Software (company)
- Extreme Programming (other)
- Scrum (other)
- Bob Martin (other)
- Kent Beck (other)

## Related episodes from other shows

- [109: Resurrection of Extreme Programming](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2015-07-15-109-resurrection-of-extreme-programming) (Embedded.fm)
- [109: Resurrection of Extreme Programming (Repeat)](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2018-10-12-109-resurrection-of-extreme-programming-repeat) (Embedded.fm)
- [270: Broccoli Is Good Too](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2018-12-14-270-broccoli-is-good-too) (Embedded.fm)
- [30: Eventually Lightning Strikes (Repeat)](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2016-11-30-30-eventually-lightning-strikes-repeat) (Embedded.fm)
- [30: Eventually Lightning Strikes](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2013-12-11-30-eventually-lightning-strikes) (Embedded.fm)

## Citing this page

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