# "What's the ROI?" is the Wrong Question: Measuring Marketing Impact w/ Joe Sullivan

- Show: [The Manufacturing Executive](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-manufacturing-executive)
- Published: 2025-10-28
- Episode: 281
- Page: https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-manufacturing-executive/2025-10-28-whats-the-roi-is-the-wrong-question-measuring-marketing-impact-w-joe-sullivan
- Listen: https://www.spreaker.com/show/the-manufacturing-executive#episode-671d9d1d-4f70-419d-acc5-4842ad0e34b2

## Summary

Joe Sullivan, founder of the industrial marketing agency Gorilla 76, explains why asking 'What's the ROI?' too early is a common mistake for manufacturing leaders. He contrasts two scenarios: a company needing short-term sales lift (like 'Newco') versus one building sustainable long-term growth (like 'General Manufacturing'). Sullivan argues that leaders must first define specific, measurable outcomes aligned with their business stage—such as doubling qualified RFQs or increasing deal size—rather than demanding immediate financial returns on marketing spend.

## Chapters

- [0:04](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-manufacturing-executive/2025-10-28-whats-the-roi-is-the-wrong-question-measuring-marketing-impact-w-joe-sullivan#t=4) Introduction and the ROI Problem
- [8:28](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-manufacturing-executive/2025-10-28-whats-the-roi-is-the-wrong-question-measuring-marketing-impact-w-joe-sullivan#t=508) The Metal Casting Client Story
- [14:35](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-manufacturing-executive/2025-10-28-whats-the-roi-is-the-wrong-question-measuring-marketing-impact-w-joe-sullivan#t=875) Defining Success and the House Analogy
- [23:09](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-manufacturing-executive/2025-10-28-whats-the-roi-is-the-wrong-question-measuring-marketing-impact-w-joe-sullivan#t=1389) The Dan Sullivan Question and Long-Term Goals
- [26:58](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-manufacturing-executive/2025-10-28-whats-the-roi-is-the-wrong-question-measuring-marketing-impact-w-joe-sullivan#t=1618) Scenario 1: Newco Short-Term Growth
- [32:16](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-manufacturing-executive/2025-10-28-whats-the-roi-is-the-wrong-question-measuring-marketing-impact-w-joe-sullivan#t=1936) Scenario 2: General Manufacturing Long-Term Growth
- [38:01](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-manufacturing-executive/2025-10-28-whats-the-roi-is-the-wrong-question-measuring-marketing-impact-w-joe-sullivan#t=2281) Lessons Learned and Final Advice

## Topics

- [Pricing, margins & unit economics](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/pricing-and-unit-economics)
- [Marketing & brand](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/marketing-and-brand)
- [Validation & product-market fit](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/validation-and-product-market-fit)

## Most relevant to

early-stage companies

## Mentioned

- Gorilla 76 (company)
- MT Forecast (other)
- Newco (other)
- General Manufacturing (other)
- Dan Sullivan (other)

## Related episodes from other shows

- [Building an Industrial Marketing Roadmap with Joe Sullivan](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/manufacturing-happy-hour/2020-08-25-building-an-industrial-marketing-roadmap-with-joe-sullivan) (Manufacturing Happy Hour)
- [200: 8 Pillars of Product Marketing Success](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/product-startup/2023-11-03-200-8-pillars-of-product-marketing-success) (Product Startup)
- [256: Timeless Industrial Marketing Strategies and New Ways Manufacturers Can Reach Their Ideal Customer featuring Wendy Covey of TREW Marketing and Joe Sullivan of Gorilla 76](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/manufacturing-happy-hour/2025-10-07-256-timeless-industrial-marketing-strategies-and-new-ways-manufacturers-can-reac) (Manufacturing Happy Hour)
- [Theater, MMA, and Starting a Manufacturing Web Series with Eddie Saunders Jr. Of Flex Machine Tools](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/manufacturing-happy-hour/2022-02-15-theater-mma-and-starting-a-manufacturing-web-series-with-eddie-saunders-jr-of-fl) (Manufacturing Happy Hour)
- [Marketing That’s Seen, Heard, and Felt | Sales & Marketing Game Changers Mini-Series | Ep. 1 of 4](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/manufacturing-happy-hour/2020-09-11-marketing-thats-seen-heard-and-felt-sales-marketing-game-changers-mini-series-ep) (Manufacturing Happy Hour)

## Citing this page

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