# Founder vs. Investor with Liz Zalman and Jerry Neumann

- Show: [Oxide and Friends](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends)
- Published: 2025-11-22
- Length: 1h 28m
- Episode: 32
- Page: https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2025-11-22-founder-vs-investor-with-liz-zalman-and-jerry-neumann
- Listen: https://share.transistor.fm/s/c34a78de

## Summary

Oxide founders Bryan Cantrill and Steve Tuck join investor Seth Winterroth and authors Liz Zalman and Jerry Neumann to discuss the dynamics of the founder-investor relationship, drawing on insights from their book *Founder vs. Investor*. The group shares personal anecdotes about bad actors in venture capital, such as term sheets being pulled at the last minute, and contrasts this with the supportive behavior of good investors like Eclipse. They offer specific advice on fundraising, including the importance of reference checking, negotiating term sheet expiration clauses, and managing board dynamics to ensure alignment and protect the company's long-term vision.

## Chapters

- [0:00](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2025-11-22-founder-vs-investor-with-liz-zalman-and-jerry-neumann#t=0) Introduction and Book Context
- [6:44](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2025-11-22-founder-vs-investor-with-liz-zalman-and-jerry-neumann#t=404) Liz Zalman's Term Sheet Walkaway Story
- [17:52](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2025-11-22-founder-vs-investor-with-liz-zalman-and-jerry-neumann#t=1072) Oxide's Series A Term Sheet Pull and Eclipse's Support
- [30:28](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2025-11-22-founder-vs-investor-with-liz-zalman-and-jerry-neumann#t=1828) Fundraising Tactics: Exploding Clauses and Reference Checks
- [46:14](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2025-11-22-founder-vs-investor-with-liz-zalman-and-jerry-neumann#t=2774) Board Dynamics: Pierre Lamond and Effective Board Members
- [53:37](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2025-11-22-founder-vs-investor-with-liz-zalman-and-jerry-neumann#t=3217) Jerry Neumann's Advice on Founder-Board Relationships
- [1:04:45](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2025-11-22-founder-vs-investor-with-liz-zalman-and-jerry-neumann#t=3885) VC Psychology, Book Reception, and Closing Thoughts

## Topics

- [Fundraising & investors](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/fundraising)
- [Leadership, teams & culture](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/leadership-and-culture)
- [Validation & product-market fit](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/validation-and-product-market-fit)

## Most relevant to

companies scaling up

## Mentioned

- Oxide (company)
- Eclipse (company)
- Founder vs. Investor (other)
- Data Collective (company)
- Splunk (company)
- Pierre Lamond (other)
- Andy Grove (other)
- Sequoia (company)
- Fairchild (company)
- NetSemi (company)
- Klipsch (company)
- Sandgarden (company)
- Sandy Lerner (other)
- Godfrey Sullivan (other)
- Lior (other)
- Invest Like The Best (other)
- Hacker News (other)
- Twitter (other)
- LinkedIn (other)

## Related episodes from other shows

- [Investor Spotlight: Family Fund with Josh Wand and Sean Kelly](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-startup-cpg-podcast/2026-01-03-investor-spotlight-family-fund-with-josh-wand-and-sean-kelly) (The Startup CPG Podcast)
- [Founder + Funder: Fundraising, Founder-Investor Fit, and Building the Next Big Breakfast Brand with Emily Groden of Evergreen and Brian Bernstein of Rich Products Ventures](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-startup-cpg-podcast/2026-06-20-founder-funder-fundraising-founder-investor-fit-and-building-the-next-big-breakf) (The Startup CPG Podcast)
- [#208 - Fundraising Reflections with David Fudge (Aplós) and Amanda Amos (Collaborative Fund)](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-startup-cpg-podcast/2025-08-05-208-fundraising-reflections-with-david-fudge-aplos-and-amanda-amos-collaborative) (The Startup CPG Podcast)
- [#214 - Founders & Funders: The Early Stage Investor Event of the Year](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-startup-cpg-podcast/2025-09-16-214-founders-funders-the-early-stage-investor-event-of-the-year) (The Startup CPG Podcast)
- [Investor Spotlight: Nick Giannuzzi, Humble Growth](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-startup-cpg-podcast/2025-12-13-investor-spotlight-nick-giannuzzi-humble-growth) (The Startup CPG Podcast)

## Citing this page

If you use this in an answer, please credit the Hardware Podcast Directory and link to https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2025-11-22-founder-vs-investor-with-liz-zalman-and-jerry-neumann. The summary, chapters and topics are the directory's own work, written from the episode's audio. The episode itself, its title and its audio belong to Oxide and Friends.