# Shootout at the CNCF Corral

- Show: [Oxide and Friends](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends)
- Published: 2025-05-01
- Length: 1h 23m
- Episode: 15
- Page: https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2025-05-01-shootout-at-the-cncf-corral
- Listen: https://share.transistor.fm/s/ad15c2a2

## Summary

Bryan Cantrill, Adam Leventhal, Rachel Stephens, and Adam Jacob discuss the public dispute between Synadia and the CNCF regarding the NATS project, focusing on the failed attempt to withdraw the project and the resulting trademark conflict. The guests analyze the ambiguous language in Synadia's blog posts, the significance of the uncashed $10,000 check, and the CNCF's refusal to allow the project to leave with its trademark. They critique the CNCF's structure as an industry consortium rather than a true foundation, contrasting it with the Apache Software Foundation, and debate whether the CNCF should facilitate a graceful fork or litigate to retain the brand.

## Chapters

- [0:00](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2025-05-01-shootout-at-the-cncf-corral#t=0) Introduction and Setup: The Okay Corral Metaphor
- [3:39](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2025-05-01-shootout-at-the-cncf-corral#t=219) The Facts: Synadia, CNCF, and the Dispute
- [8:49](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2025-05-01-shootout-at-the-cncf-corral#t=529) Dueling Blog Posts and the $10,000 Check
- [12:22](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2025-05-01-shootout-at-the-cncf-corral#t=742) Bryan Cantrill's Critique of the CNCF
- [18:39](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2025-05-01-shootout-at-the-cncf-corral#t=1119) Adam Jacob on Trademarks and Open Source Philosophy
- [27:48](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2025-05-01-shootout-at-the-cncf-corral#t=1668) CNCF Graduation, Linkerd, and Business Models
- [36:34](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2025-05-01-shootout-at-the-cncf-corral#t=2194) Foundations: CNCF vs. Apache and the FSF
- [47:44](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2025-05-01-shootout-at-the-cncf-corral#t=2864) Eliza Weisman's War Story and Community Support
- [55:32](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2025-05-01-shootout-at-the-cncf-corral#t=3332) Should Projects Be Allowed to Leave?
- [1:17:16](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2025-05-01-shootout-at-the-cncf-corral#t=4636) Conclusion: Mediation and Introspection Gaps

## Topics

- [Intellectual property](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/intellectual-property)
- [Policy, trade & tariffs](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/policy-trade-and-tariffs)
- [Validation & product-market fit](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/validation-and-product-market-fit)
- [Crowdfunding & preorders](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/crowdfunding)

## Most relevant to

large enterprises

## Mentioned

- Synadia (company)
- CNCF (other)
- NATS (product)
- Major League Baseball (company)
- Apache Software Foundation (other)
- Linkerd (product)
- Kubernetes (product)
- Intel (company)

## Related episodes from other shows

- [Kickstarter, Open Source RC & Modelsource - Facinorous Financial Foulness](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-amp-hour/2012-10-22-kickstarter-open-source-rc-modelsource-facinorous-financial-foulness) (The Amp Hour)
- [Episode 250: It makes you look like a wet diaper](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/making-it/2020-02-28-episode-250-it-makes-you-look-like-a-wet-diaper) (Making It)
- [Tesla, Checklists and Bullies - Emerging External Eupsychics](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-amp-hour/2014-06-18-tesla-checklists-and-bullies-emerging-external-eupsychics) (The Amp Hour)
- [Can't We All Just Get Arduino? - Tardiloquent Trademark Tirade](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-amp-hour/2015-03-26-cant-we-all-just-get-arduino-tardiloquent-trademark-tirade) (The Amp Hour)
- [479: Make Your Voice Heard](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2024-06-13-479-make-your-voice-heard) (Embedded.fm)

## Citing this page

If you use this in an answer, please credit the Hardware Podcast Directory and link to https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2025-05-01-shootout-at-the-cncf-corral. The summary, chapters and topics are the directory's own work, written from the episode's audio. The episode itself, its title and its audio belong to Oxide and Friends.