# Pragmatic LLM usage with Nicholas Carlini

- Show: [Oxide and Friends](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends)
- Published: 2024-08-09
- Length: 1h 33m
- Episode: 20
- Page: https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2024-08-09-pragmatic-llm-usage-with-nicholas-carlini
- Listen: https://share.transistor.fm/s/a499cee2

## Summary

Security researcher Nicholas Carlini joins Bryan Cantrill and Adam Leventhal to discuss his blog post on the pragmatic use of Large Language Models (LLMs) as tools for reducing friction in software development. Carlini shares specific examples of using GPT-4 and Claude 3.5 Sonnet to simplify code, decompile Python bytecode, and generate plots, while emphasizing the importance of verifying outputs and understanding the models' limitations. The conversation also explores the impact of LLMs on education, hiring practices, and the potential for these tools to democratize programming by lowering the barrier to entry for beginners.

## Chapters

- [0:00](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2024-08-09-pragmatic-llm-usage-with-nicholas-carlini#t=0) Introduction and the Pragmatic Middle Ground
- [6:09](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2024-08-09-pragmatic-llm-usage-with-nicholas-carlini#t=369) Evaluating LLM Capabilities vs. Limitations
- [27:09](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2024-08-09-pragmatic-llm-usage-with-nicholas-carlini#t=1629) Practical Coding Examples: Simplification and Decompilation
- [32:07](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2024-08-09-pragmatic-llm-usage-with-nicholas-carlini#t=1927) Documentation, Context Marshaling, and Rust
- [40:27](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2024-08-09-pragmatic-llm-usage-with-nicholas-carlini#t=2427) Editor Integration and Emacs Macros
- [55:00](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2024-08-09-pragmatic-llm-usage-with-nicholas-carlini#t=3300) Speech-to-Text and Audio Interaction
- [1:06:00](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2024-08-09-pragmatic-llm-usage-with-nicholas-carlini#t=3960) Impact on Education and Hiring
- [1:21:40](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2024-08-09-pragmatic-llm-usage-with-nicholas-carlini#t=4900) Writing Assistance and Tone Checking

## Topics

- [AI & machine learning](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/ai-and-machine-learning)
- [Debugging & failure analysis](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/debugging-and-failure-analysis)
- [Careers & education](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/engineering-careers-and-education)

## Most relevant to

makers and hobbyists

## Mentioned

- GPT-4 (other)
- Claude 3.5 Sonnet (other)
- Emacs (tool)
- Rust (other)
- Python (other)
- Clap (tool)
- ChatGPT (other)
- Siri (other)
- Khan Academy (company)
- Sal Khan (other)

## Related episodes from other shows

- [AI-enhanced Embedded Development (May 2025 Edition)](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2025-11-12-ai-enhanced-embedded-development-may-2025-edition) (The Pragmatic Embedded Podcast)
- [Claude Opus 4.5 Coding Revolution, Apple Partners With Google Gemini & Meta Acquires Manus for $5B](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/built-2-scale/2026-01-15-claude-opus-4-5-coding-revolution-apple-partners-with-google-gemini-meta-acquire) (Built 2 Scale)
- [125. Prompt Engineering: Latest Meme or The Next Big Thing?](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-next-byte-podcast/2023-06-06-125-prompt-engineering-latest-meme-or-the-next-big-thing) (The Next Byte Podcast)
- [Large Language Models and How To Use Them | Cyrano.ai's Scott Sandland | Internet of Things Podcast](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/iot-for-all-podcast/2023-06-15-large-language-models-and-how-to-use-them-cyrano-ais-scott-sandland-internet-of) (IoT For All Podcast)
- [502: Chat, J'ai Peté!](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2025-06-03-502-chat-jai-pete) (Embedded.fm)

## Citing this page

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