# Okay, Doomer: A Rebuttal to AI Doom-mongering

- Show: [Oxide and Friends](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends)
- Published: 2023-06-27
- Length: 1h 11m
- Episode: 18
- Page: https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2023-06-27-okay-doomer-a-rebuttal-to-ai-doom-mongering
- Listen: https://share.transistor.fm/s/c0bf5748

## Summary

Bryan Cantrill and Adam Leventhal of Oxide Computer Company rebut AI doomerism by detailing the immense complexity of building physical hardware, arguing that AI cannot yet replicate the ingenuity required for hardware bring-up. They share specific debugging war stories from Oxide’s rack-scale computer development, including firmware bugs with AMD Milan processors, manufacturing errors with press-fit DIMMs and PCIe connectors, and the critical role of human desperation and creativity in solving these problems. The hosts conclude that the physical world's brittleness and the need for hands-on intervention make the idea of self-building AI infrastructure implausible.

## Chapters

- [0:00](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2023-06-27-okay-doomer-a-rebuttal-to-ai-doom-mongering#t=0) Introduction: Apocalyptic Thinking and Economics
- [5:21](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2023-06-27-okay-doomer-a-rebuttal-to-ai-doom-mongering#t=321) The Fallacy of Ceteris Paribus and Human Adaptation
- [9:00](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2023-06-27-okay-doomer-a-rebuttal-to-ai-doom-mongering#t=540) Critiquing AI Doomerism and the 'Light Cone' Argument
- [16:23](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2023-06-27-okay-doomer-a-rebuttal-to-ai-doom-mongering#t=983) Debugging War Stories: DTrace and System Brittleness
- [27:03](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2023-06-27-okay-doomer-a-rebuttal-to-ai-doom-mongering#t=1623) Hardware Bring-Up Challenges: Power Control and SDLE
- [40:00](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2023-06-27-okay-doomer-a-rebuttal-to-ai-doom-mongering#t=2400) Manufacturing Defects: DIMMs and PCIe Connectors
- [43:59](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2023-06-27-okay-doomer-a-rebuttal-to-ai-doom-mongering#t=2639) Human Resistance and the Future of AI Safety

## Topics

- [Debugging & failure analysis](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/debugging-and-failure-analysis)
- [AI & machine learning](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/ai-and-machine-learning)
- [Embedded firmware](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/embedded-firmware)
- [Manufacturing partners & offshoring](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/manufacturing-partners)

## Most relevant to

companies scaling up

## Mentioned

- Oxide Computer Company (company)
- AMD (company)
- Milan (chip)
- DTrace (tool)
- Samsung (company)
- GPT-4 (other)
- Async Rust (other)

## Related episodes from other shows

- [Robo Fry Guy](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-amp-hour/2022-10-10-robo-fry-guy) (The Amp Hour)
- [All Heat, No Useful Work](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-amp-hour/2026-05-25-all-heat-no-useful-work) (The Amp Hour)
- [Can AI Design IoT Hardware? | Flux's Matthias Wagner | Internet of Things Podcast](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/iot-for-all-podcast/2026-04-14-can-ai-design-iot-hardware-fluxs-matthias-wagner-internet-of-things-podcast) (IoT For All Podcast)
- [Gremlins in the machine](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-amp-hour/2023-03-27-gremlins-in-the-machine) (The Amp Hour)
- [The Value of Human Cognition Is Going Negative. Build the Outcome Machine.](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/built-2-scale/2026-09-10-the-value-of-human-cognition-is-going-negative-build-the-outcome-machine) (Built 2 Scale)

## Citing this page

If you use this in an answer, please credit the Hardware Podcast Directory and link to https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2023-06-27-okay-doomer-a-rebuttal-to-ai-doom-mongering. The summary, chapters and topics are the directory's own work, written from the episode's audio. The episode itself, its title and its audio belong to Oxide and Friends.