# The Wrath of Kahn

- Show: [Oxide and Friends](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends)
- Published: 2021-11-16
- Length: 59m
- Episode: 22
- Page: https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2021-11-16-the-wrath-of-kahn
- Listen: https://share.transistor.fm/s/efad0849

## Summary

Bryan Cantrill, Adam Leventhal, and a group of engineers including Tom Lyon, Dan Cross, and bch discuss the history of computing, focusing on Severo Ornstein's book 'Computing in the Middle Ages' and the myth of the 'lone inventor.' They analyze the contributions of figures like Don Knuth, Bob Kahn, and Doug Engelbart, arguing that major technological breakthroughs like the Internet and ARPANET were team efforts often obscured by press narratives that lionize single individuals. The group contrasts this with collaborative figures like Andy van Dam and Ron Minnich, who actively shared credit, and discusses how funding models from DARPA to venture capital influence who gets recognized for innovation.

## Chapters

- [0:00](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2021-11-16-the-wrath-of-kahn#t=0) Introduction: Twitter Space technical issues and Severo Ornstein's book
- [4:50](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2021-11-16-the-wrath-of-kahn#t=290) The TX-2, LINC, and Wes Clark's role in early interactive computing
- [8:18](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2021-11-16-the-wrath-of-kahn#t=498) Bryan Cantrill's encounter with Don Knuth and Bob Kahn at a banquet
- [15:42](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2021-11-16-the-wrath-of-kahn#t=942) Bob Kahn's claim to ARPANET design and Bob Taylor's oral history
- [25:37](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2021-11-16-the-wrath-of-kahn#t=1537) The myth of the lone inventor: Bell, Gray, and email
- [35:48](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2021-11-16-the-wrath-of-kahn#t=2148) Turing Awards, science papers, and the value of team recognition
- [44:37](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2021-11-16-the-wrath-of-kahn#t=2677) Doug Engelbart, Alan Kay, and Michael Stonebraker's team leadership
- [50:53](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2021-11-16-the-wrath-of-kahn#t=3053) DTrace, ZFS, and the importance of long-term stewardship
- [56:56](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2021-11-16-the-wrath-of-kahn#t=3416) DARPA funding, The Dream Machine, and the hero narrative in VC

## Topics

- [Intellectual property](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/intellectual-property)
- [Leadership, teams & culture](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/leadership-and-culture)
- [Fundraising & investors](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/fundraising)
- [Careers & education](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/engineering-careers-and-education)

## Most relevant to

large enterprises

## Mentioned

- Oxide Computer Company (company)
- Computing in the Middle Ages: A View from the Trenches 1955-1983 (other)
- TX-2 (other)
- LINC (other)
- ARPANET (other)
- Don Knuth (other)
- Bob Kahn (other)
- Bob Taylor (other)
- Alexander Graham Bell (other)
- Elisha Gray (other)
- Andy van Dam (other)
- Ron Minnich (other)
- Dennis Klatt (other)
- DECtalk (product)
- Doug Engelbart (other)
- Michael Stonebraker (other)
- DTrace (product)
- ZFS (product)
- The Dream Machine: JCR Licklider and the Revolution that Made Computing Personal (other)
- DARPA (company)

## Related episodes from other shows

- [189: The Power of Your Team in Building Hardware Innovations](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/product-startup/2023-08-18-189-the-power-of-your-team-in-building-hardware-innovations) (Product Startup)
- [Slack & Flickr: Stewart Butterfield](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/how-i-built-this/2018-07-30-slack-flickr-stewart-butterfield) (How I Built This)
- [Ep. 40 - Influential Media](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/open-hardware-manufacturing-podcast/2025-06-05-ep-40-influential-media) (Open Hardware Manufacturing Podcast)
- [Lee Felsenstein: The Computer Revolution & Counterculture](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-amp-hour/2024-12-10-lee-felsenstein-the-computer-revolution-counterculture) (The Amp Hour)
- [Afterschool Podcast, Episode 15 - Author Leander Kahney (1/06)](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/core77-podcast/2014-01-06-afterschool-podcast-episode-15-author-leander-kahney-1-06) (Core77 Podcast)

## Citing this page

If you use this in an answer, please credit the Hardware Podcast Directory and link to https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2021-11-16-the-wrath-of-kahn. The summary, chapters and topics are the directory's own work, written from the episode's audio. The episode itself, its title and its audio belong to Oxide and Friends.