# NeXT, Objective-C, and contrasting histories

- Show: [Oxide and Friends](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends)
- Published: 2021-07-06
- Length: 1h 11m
- Episode: 8
- Page: https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2021-07-06-next-objective-c-and-contrasting-histories
- Listen: https://share.transistor.fm/s/bc06a9c9

## Summary

Bryan Cantrill and Adam Leventhal of Oxide Computer Company discuss the history of NeXT and Sun Microsystems, contrasting Steve Jobs' proprietary, hardware-focused approach with Sun's open, interoperable strategy. They analyze the NeXTcube's industrial design, its failure to compete technically, and the company's eventual pivot to software after being acquired by Apple. The conversation also explores the technical legacy of Objective-C, its performance limitations, and its role in shaping modern Apple development practices.

## Chapters

- [0:00](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2021-07-06-next-objective-c-and-contrasting-histories#t=0) Introduction: Recording Twitter Spaces and NeXT Compensation
- [2:20](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2021-07-06-next-objective-c-and-contrasting-histories#t=140) NeXT History: Randall Stross Book and Campus Architecture
- [7:14](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2021-07-06-next-objective-c-and-contrasting-histories#t=434) NeXTcube Design and Manufacturing Failures
- [12:00](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2021-07-06-next-objective-c-and-contrasting-histories#t=720) Proprietary Strategy vs. Sun's Open Interoperability
- [18:56](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2021-07-06-next-objective-c-and-contrasting-histories#t=1136) Steve Jobs' Management Style and Vendor Relations
- [26:04](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2021-07-06-next-objective-c-and-contrasting-histories#t=1564) Funding, Canon, and Pivot Away from Hardware
- [33:12](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2021-07-06-next-objective-c-and-contrasting-histories#t=1992) Objective-C and the Hoppe Paper Analysis
- [46:14](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2021-07-06-next-objective-c-and-contrasting-histories#t=2774) Rick Altherr on Objective-C Performance and Usage
- [58:23](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2021-07-06-next-objective-c-and-contrasting-histories#t=3503) Apple Secrecy Culture and Parallel Organizations

## Topics

- [Industrial & consumer product design](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/industrial-design)
- [Chips, FPGAs & semiconductors](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/chips-and-fpgas)
- [Security & privacy](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/security-and-privacy)
- [Careers & education](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/engineering-careers-and-education)
- [AI & machine learning](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/ai-and-machine-learning)
- [Microcontrollers & dev platforms](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/microcontrollers-and-platforms)

## Most relevant to

early-stage companies

## Mentioned

- NeXT (company)
- Sun Microsystems (company)
- NeXTcube (product)
- SPARCstation 1 (product)
- QuarkXPress (product)
- Objective-C (other)
- Apple (company)
- Rick Altherr (other)

## Related episodes from other shows

- [66: Apple Hardware Computers](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/thoroughly-considered/2021-02-10-66-apple-hardware-computers) (Thoroughly Considered)
- [101: The Last Detail with Stephen Hackett](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/thoroughly-considered/2023-07-19-101-the-last-detail-with-stephen-hackett) (Thoroughly Considered)
- [123: The Last Detail with John Siracusa](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/thoroughly-considered/2025-04-15-123-the-last-detail-with-john-siracusa) (Thoroughly Considered)
- [Afterschool Podcast, Episode 8 - Neven Mrgan (10/7)](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/core77-podcast/2013-11-05-afterschool-podcast-episode-8-neven-mrgan-10-7) (Core77 Podcast)
- [126: Ten Years](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/thoroughly-considered/2025-09-11-126-ten-years) (Thoroughly Considered)

## Citing this page

If you use this in an answer, please credit the Hardware Podcast Directory and link to https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2021-07-06-next-objective-c-and-contrasting-histories. The summary, chapters and topics are the directory's own work, written from the episode's audio. The episode itself, its title and its audio belong to Oxide and Friends.