# Ep. 28 | How DARPA Stops IC Hardware Hackers in Their Tracks: Insights from Serge Leef

- Show: [Moore's Lobby](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/moores-lobby)
- Published: 2021-08-24
- Length: 1h 01m
- Episode: 1
- Page: https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/moores-lobby/2021-08-24-ep-28-how-darpa-stops-ic-hardware-hackers-in-their-tracks-insights-from-serge-le
- Listen: https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/podcast/episode-28-how-darpa-stops-ic-hardware-hackers-in-their-tracks-insights-from-serge-leef

## Summary

Serge Leef, DARPA’s Program Manager for the Microsystems Technology Office, discusses his transition from a 30-year career in design automation at companies like Mentor Graphics and Silicon Graphics to leading hardware security initiatives at DARPA. He outlines DARPA’s four attack surfaces for secure silicon—supply chain, side-channel, reverse engineering, and hardware Trojans—and explains the agency's strategy of embedding security into design tools, likening it to fluoridating water. Leef highlights the economic realities of hardware security, noting that while merchant semiconductor companies invest heavily in bespoke protection, IoT manufacturers often ignore it until forced by crisis, and emphasizes the critical vulnerability of untrusted third-party IP.

## Chapters

- [0:01](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/moores-lobby/2021-08-24-ep-28-how-darpa-stops-ic-hardware-hackers-in-their-tracks-insights-from-serge-le#t=1) Introduction and Serge Leef's Background
- [7:21](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/moores-lobby/2021-08-24-ep-28-how-darpa-stops-ic-hardware-hackers-in-their-tracks-insights-from-serge-le#t=441) Career at Intel, Silicon Graphics, and Mentor Graphics
- [14:14](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/moores-lobby/2021-08-24-ep-28-how-darpa-stops-ic-hardware-hackers-in-their-tracks-insights-from-serge-le#t=854) Transition to DARPA and the Role of a Program Manager
- [25:27](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/moores-lobby/2021-08-24-ep-28-how-darpa-stops-ic-hardware-hackers-in-their-tracks-insights-from-serge-le#t=1527) DARPA's Four Attack Surfaces for Secure Silicon
- [32:28](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/moores-lobby/2021-08-24-ep-28-how-darpa-stops-ic-hardware-hackers-in-their-tracks-insights-from-serge-le#t=1948) The ACE Program and Embedding Security in Design Flows
- [45:50](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/moores-lobby/2021-08-24-ep-28-how-darpa-stops-ic-hardware-hackers-in-their-tracks-insights-from-serge-le#t=2750) Hardware Trojans and Third-Party IP Vulnerabilities
- [53:05](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/moores-lobby/2021-08-24-ep-28-how-darpa-stops-ic-hardware-hackers-in-their-tracks-insights-from-serge-le#t=3185) Economics of Security and Industry Mindset
- [56:00](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/moores-lobby/2021-08-24-ep-28-how-darpa-stops-ic-hardware-hackers-in-their-tracks-insights-from-serge-le#t=3360) DARPA Culture and Closing Thoughts

## Topics

- [Security & privacy](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/security-and-privacy)
- [EDA & CAD tools](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/eda-and-cad-tools)
- [Chips, FPGAs & semiconductors](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/chips-and-fpgas)
- [Careers & education](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/engineering-careers-and-education)

## Most relevant to

large enterprises

## Mentioned

- DARPA (company)
- Mentor Graphics (company)
- Silicon Graphics (company)
- Intel (company)
- Synopsys (company)
- ARM (company)
- Infineon Technologies (company)
- ACE (product)

## Related episodes from other shows

- [Shouting at chips with Colin O'Flynn](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-amp-hour/2021-08-02-shouting-at-chips-with-colin-oflynn) (The Amp Hour)
- [An Interview with Dmitry Nedospasov](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-amp-hour/2016-06-17-an-interview-with-dmitry-nedospasov) (The Amp Hour)
- [431: Becoming More of a Smurf](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2022-10-20-431-becoming-more-of-a-smurf) (Embedded.fm)
- [An Interview with Joe FitzPatrick](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-amp-hour/2017-06-05-an-interview-with-joe-fitzpatrick) (The Amp Hour)
- [An Interview with Saar Drimer](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-amp-hour/2016-02-12-an-interview-with-saar-drimer) (The Amp Hour)

## Citing this page

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