# Skype and Kazaa: Niklas Zennström

- Show: [How I Built This](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/how-i-built-this)
- Published: 2025-03-17
- Length: 1h 10m
- Page: https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/how-i-built-this/2025-03-17-skype-and-kazaa-niklas-zennstrom

## Summary

Niklas Zennström, co-founder of Kazaa and Skype, recounts his journey from a Swedish telecom engineer to a serial entrepreneur who disrupted the music and telecommunications industries. He details the creation of Kazaa, the subsequent legal battles with the RIAA that forced its sale, and the pivot to building Skype using peer-to-peer technology to bypass expensive international calling fees. Zennström explains how Skype achieved viral growth through free access and Skype Out credits, leading to its acquisition by eBay for $2.6 billion and later by Microsoft for $8.5 billion.

## Chapters

- [0:00](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/how-i-built-this/2025-03-17-skype-and-kazaa-niklas-zennstrom#t=0) Introduction: Niklas Zennström and the Peer-to-Peer Revolution
- [4:38](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/how-i-built-this/2025-03-17-skype-and-kazaa-niklas-zennstrom#t=278) Early Life, Teletu, and Meeting Janus Friis
- [14:18](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/how-i-built-this/2025-03-17-skype-and-kazaa-niklas-zennstrom#t=858) Founding Kazaa and the Napster Inspiration
- [22:51](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/how-i-built-this/2025-03-17-skype-and-kazaa-niklas-zennstrom#t=1371) Legal Battles, Cease and Desist Letters, and Selling Kazaa
- [34:29](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/how-i-built-this/2025-03-17-skype-and-kazaa-niklas-zennstrom#t=2069) Conceiving Skype and Raising Seed Funding
- [43:15](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/how-i-built-this/2025-03-17-skype-and-kazaa-niklas-zennstrom#t=2595) Developing Skype, Viral Growth, and the Skype Out Model
- [53:51](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/how-i-built-this/2025-03-17-skype-and-kazaa-niklas-zennstrom#t=3231) The eBay Acquisition and Later Ventures
- [1:06:16](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/how-i-built-this/2025-03-17-skype-and-kazaa-niklas-zennstrom#t=3976) Reflections on Entrepreneurship and Skype's Legacy

## Topics

- [Starting a product company](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/starting-a-company)
- [Validation & product-market fit](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/validation-and-product-market-fit)
- [Pricing, margins & unit economics](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/pricing-and-unit-economics)
- [Growth, exits & acquisitions](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/growth-exits-and-acquisitions)
- [Policy, trade & tariffs](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/policy-trade-and-tariffs)
- [Leadership, teams & culture](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/leadership-and-culture)

## Most relevant to

founders before launch, early-stage companies, companies scaling up

## Mentioned

- Kazaa (product)
- Skype (product)
- Napster (product)
- RIAA (company)
- eBay (company)
- Microsoft (company)
- Teletu (company)
- Atomico (company)
- RDIO (product)
- Spotify (product)
- Yahoo (company)
- Google (company)
- AOL (company)
- Bill Draper (other)
- Janus Friis (other)

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- [Ep. 23 | Arduino Co-founder Massimo Banzi on How Arduino Took the World by Storm](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/moores-lobby/2021-04-29-ep-23-arduino-co-founder-massimo-banzi-on-how-arduino-took-the-world-by-storm) (Moore's Lobby)
- [Rooting for the Home Team with Paul Freedman and Bryan Carmel](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2026-05-27-rooting-for-the-home-team-with-paul-freedman-and-bryan-carmel) (Oxide and Friends)
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