# The peril (and promise) of AI with Tristan Harris: Part 1

- Show: [How I Built This](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/how-i-built-this)
- Published: 2024-02-22
- Length: 28m
- Page: https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/how-i-built-this/2024-02-22-the-peril-and-promise-of-ai-with-tristan-harris-part-1

## Summary

Tristan Harris, co-founder of the Center for Humane Technology, explains how the incentive structures of the attention economy drive harmful outcomes, a lesson he first learned while building his company Apture in the mid-2000s. He details his 2013 internal Google presentation warning about the impact of designers at Google, Apple, and Facebook on global attention, and how the rapid adoption of social media and now AI outpaces human cognitive adaptation. Harris argues that the race to build artificial general intelligence by companies like OpenAI, Anthropic, and DeepMind mirrors the Manhattan Project, creating existential risks through uncontrolled scaling of Transformer-based models.

## Chapters

- [0:00](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/how-i-built-this/2024-02-22-the-peril-and-promise-of-ai-with-tristan-harris-part-1#t=0) Introduction: Tristan Harris and the Center for Humane Technology
- [3:12](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/how-i-built-this/2024-02-22-the-peril-and-promise-of-ai-with-tristan-harris-part-1#t=192) Apture and the lesson of engagement incentives
- [5:53](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/how-i-built-this/2024-02-22-the-peril-and-promise-of-ai-with-tristan-harris-part-1#t=353) The 2013 Google presentation on attention
- [14:39](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/how-i-built-this/2024-02-22-the-peril-and-promise-of-ai-with-tristan-harris-part-1#t=879) Time Well Spent and the speed of social media
- [20:16](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/how-i-built-this/2024-02-22-the-peril-and-promise-of-ai-with-tristan-harris-part-1#t=1216) The AI arms race and the Manhattan Project analogy
- [26:01](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/how-i-built-this/2024-02-22-the-peril-and-promise-of-ai-with-tristan-harris-part-1#t=1561) Transformers, GPT-4, and emergent capabilities

## Topics

- [AI & machine learning](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/ai-and-machine-learning)
- [Starting a product company](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/starting-a-company)
- [Leadership, teams & culture](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/leadership-and-culture)
- [Policy, trade & tariffs](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/policy-trade-and-tariffs)

## Most relevant to

early-stage companies

## Mentioned

- Center for Humane Technology (company)
- Apture (company)
- Google (company)
- Apple (company)
- Facebook (company)
- OpenAI (company)
- Anthropic (company)
- DeepMind (company)
- GPT-4 (product)
- GPT-3.5 (product)
- The Social Dilemma (product)
- The AI Dilemma (product)

## Related episodes from other shows

- [The Blueprint for Scaling: Google’s A2A protocol, GPT-4.1, Memes and more](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/built-2-scale/2025-04-30-the-blueprint-for-scaling-googles-a2a-protocol-gpt-4-1-memes-and-more) (Built 2 Scale)
- [The Value of Human Cognition Is Going Negative. Build the Outcome Machine.](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/built-2-scale/2026-09-10-the-value-of-human-cognition-is-going-negative-build-the-outcome-machine) (Built 2 Scale)
- [112. Overcoming Risks of AI Misuse](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-next-byte-podcast/2023-03-07-112-overcoming-risks-of-ai-misuse) (The Next Byte Podcast)
- [Live for Your Drive](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/built-2-scale/2026-08-03-live-for-your-drive) (Built 2 Scale)
- [Is ARR a Myth?](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/built-2-scale/2025-06-19-is-arr-a-myth) (Built 2 Scale)

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