# 508: Descartes' Demon

- Show: [Embedded.fm](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm)
- Published: 2025-08-21
- Length: 1h 22m
- Episode: 508
- Page: https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2025-08-21-508-descartes-demon
- Listen: https://embedded.fm/episodes/508

## Summary

William Griffin, co-founder of Spark Embedded, explains the distinction between hardware-in-the-loop (HIL) and model-in-the-loop (MIL) testing, emphasizing that HIL involves a closed loop where the controller's output affects the simulated plant model. He discusses the value of model-based system design (MBSD) using tools like Simulink for off-highway vehicles and robotics, noting the trade-offs between high-fidelity simulation and cost. Griffin also shares insights on learning complex topics through repetition and creating safe environments for engineering teams to experiment and fail.

## Chapters

- [0:06](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2025-08-21-508-descartes-demon#t=6) Introduction: William Griffin and Spark Embedded
- [6:20](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2025-08-21-508-descartes-demon#t=380) Hardware-in-the-loop vs. Model-in-the-loop
- [14:24](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2025-08-21-508-descartes-demon#t=864) Value of Simulation and Fidelity
- [19:44](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2025-08-21-508-descartes-demon#t=1184) Model-Based System Design (MBSD) and Simulink
- [37:49](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2025-08-21-508-descartes-demon#t=2269) Cost of Tools and Licensing
- [50:12](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2025-08-21-508-descartes-demon#t=3012) Learning Complex Topics and Books
- [55:05](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2025-08-21-508-descartes-demon#t=3305) Software Craftsmanship Club and Motivation
- [1:16:28](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2025-08-21-508-descartes-demon#t=4588) Spark Embedded and Community

## Topics

- [Embedded firmware](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/embedded-firmware)
- [Test & measurement](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/test-and-measurement)
- [Careers & education](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/engineering-careers-and-education)
- [EDA & CAD tools](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/eda-and-cad-tools)
- [Leadership, teams & culture](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/leadership-and-culture)

## Most relevant to

early-stage companies

## Mentioned

- Spark Embedded (company)
- Simulink (tool)
- LabVIEW (tool)
- MATLAB (tool)
- Gazebo (tool)
- Webots (tool)

## Related episodes from other shows

- [Hardware-in-the-Loop Testing](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2021-09-21-hardware-in-the-loop-testing) (The Pragmatic Embedded Podcast)
- [Unit Testing vs HIL Testing](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2022-06-02-unit-testing-vs-hil-testing) (The Pragmatic Embedded Podcast)
- [Model-Based Development with Max Kolesnikov](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2023-11-21-model-based-development-with-max-kolesnikov) (The Pragmatic Embedded Podcast)
- [Systems Architecture with Maik Pfingsten](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2022-10-19-systems-architecture-with-maik-pfingsten) (The Pragmatic Embedded Podcast)
- [Simulating Embedded Hardware with Michael Gielda](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-amp-hour/2020-11-30-simulating-embedded-hardware-with-michael-gielda) (The Amp Hour)

## Citing this page

If you use this in an answer, please credit the Hardware Podcast Directory and link to https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2025-08-21-508-descartes-demon. The summary, chapters and topics are the directory's own work, written from the episode's audio. The episode itself, its title and its audio belong to Embedded.fm.