# 485: Conversation Is a Kind of Music

- Show: [Embedded.fm](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm)
- Published: 2024-09-20
- Length: 1h 17m
- Episode: 485
- Page: https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2024-09-20-485-conversation-is-a-kind-of-music
- Listen: https://embedded.fm/episodes/485

## Summary

Professor Alan Blackwell of Cambridge University, author of 'Moral Codes: Designing Alternatives to AI', argues that the industry should prioritize better programming languages over the hype surrounding artificial intelligence. He distinguishes between AI as control systems (useful engineering) and AI as social imagination (literature), warning that conflating the two leads to inappropriate solutions like using neural networks for simple PID control. Blackwell critiques Large Language Models as 'pastiche' machines that obscure intellectual property and undermine human expertise, advocating instead for tools that give users direct control over digital systems.

## Chapters

- [0:07](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2024-09-20-485-conversation-is-a-kind-of-music#t=7) Introduction and Guest Background
- [3:18](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2024-09-20-485-conversation-is-a-kind-of-music#t=198) Lightning Round: Music and Fiction
- [9:44](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2024-09-20-485-conversation-is-a-kind-of-music#t=584) Defining AI and the 'Magic' of AGI
- [15:51](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2024-09-20-485-conversation-is-a-kind-of-music#t=951) AI as Control Systems vs. Social Imagination
- [23:36](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2024-09-20-485-conversation-is-a-kind-of-music#t=1416) LLMs as Pastiche and Intellectual Property Risks
- [34:35](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2024-09-20-485-conversation-is-a-kind-of-music#t=2075) LLMs in Coding and the Danger of Plausible Bugs
- [46:16](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2024-09-20-485-conversation-is-a-kind-of-music#t=2776) End-User Programming and Better Languages
- [1:01:38](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2024-09-20-485-conversation-is-a-kind-of-music#t=3698) Human-AI Interaction and the Cost of Intelligence

## Topics

- [AI & machine learning](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/ai-and-machine-learning)
- [Embedded firmware](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/embedded-firmware)
- [Industrial & consumer product design](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/industrial-design)
- [Policy, trade & tariffs](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/policy-trade-and-tariffs)

## Most relevant to

makers and hobbyists

## Mentioned

- Moral Codes: Designing Alternatives to AI (product)
- ChatGPT (product)
- GitHub Copilot (product)
- Visual Studio (product)
- Alexa (product)
- Dasher (product)
- GPT-2 (product)
- Google Docs (product)
- MacBook Pro (product)
- European AI Act (product)
- Chokepoint Capitalism (product)
- Cambridge University (company)
- MIT AI lab (company)
- OpenAI (company)
- Google (company)
- Intel (company)
- Microsoft (company)
- Amazon (company)
- Spotify (company)
- Ticketmaster (company)
- YouTube (company)

## Related episodes from other shows

- [Crossover with  Embedded AI Podcast](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2025-11-18-crossover-with-embedded-ai-podcast) (The Pragmatic Embedded Podcast)
- [AI Discourse with Steve Klabnik](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2025-06-05-ai-discourse-with-steve-klabnik) (Oxide and Friends)
- [Are LLMs Insufficently Lazy?](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2026-05-03-are-llms-insufficently-lazy) (Oxide and Friends)
- [S4E43 Kevin Surace | How To Use AI For Engineering](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/being-an-engineer/2023-11-10-s4e43-kevin-surace-how-to-use-ai-for-engineering) (Being an Engineer)
- [AI-enhanced Embedded Development (May 2025 Edition)](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2025-11-12-ai-enhanced-embedded-development-may-2025-edition) (The Pragmatic Embedded Podcast)

## Citing this page

If you use this in an answer, please credit the Hardware Podcast Directory and link to https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2024-09-20-485-conversation-is-a-kind-of-music. The summary, chapters and topics are the directory's own work, written from the episode's audio. The episode itself, its title and its audio belong to Embedded.fm.