# 436: 20 GOTO 10

- Show: [Embedded.fm](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm)
- Published: 2022-12-02
- Length: 1h 21m
- Episode: 436
- Page: https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2022-12-02-436-20-goto-10
- Listen: https://embedded.fm/episodes/436

## Summary

Guest Chris Svec discusses how his nine-year-old son, 'The Kid,' learned to program by transitioning from playing video games to creating them in Scratch, using resources like DigiPen's YouTube tutorials and books by Jason Rukman and Al Sweigart. The hosts and guest then evaluate Joel Spolsky's 'Joel Test' for software company health, discussing the relevance of its 12 questions—such as source control, single-step builds, and bug databases—to modern engineering practices and hiring. They also touch on the value of block-based coding for kids and the importance of clear communication in professional settings.

## Chapters

- [0:06](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2022-12-02-436-20-goto-10#t=6) Introduction and Lightning Round
- [5:22](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2022-12-02-436-20-goto-10#t=322) The Kid's Journey into Programming
- [14:26](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2022-12-02-436-20-goto-10#t=866) Scratch, DigiPen, and Learning Resources
- [24:11](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2022-12-02-436-20-goto-10#t=1451) Scratch vs. Traditional Coding and Tools
- [42:21](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2022-12-02-436-20-goto-10#t=2541) Evaluating the Joel Test: Source Control and Builds
- [49:06](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2022-12-02-436-20-goto-10#t=2946) Joel Test: Bug Tracking and Scheduling
- [1:01:03](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2022-12-02-436-20-goto-10#t=3663) Joel Test: Work Environment and Hiring
- [1:13:03](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2022-12-02-436-20-goto-10#t=4383) Joel Test: Usability and Final Thoughts

## Topics

- [Careers & education](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/engineering-careers-and-education)
- [AI & machine learning](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/ai-and-machine-learning)
- [Embedded firmware](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/embedded-firmware)

## Most relevant to

makers and hobbyists

## Mentioned

- Scratch (tool)
- DigiPen (company)
- Joel Test (other)
- Joel Spolsky (other)
- Fog Creek Software (company)
- Stack Overflow (company)
- LEGO Mindstorms (product)
- National Instruments (company)
- LabVIEW (tool)
- Makey Makey (product)
- micro:bit (product)
- Commodore 64 (product)
- Apple II (product)
- JavaScript for Kids (other)
- The Everything Kids' Scratch Coding Book (other)
- Scratch Programming Playground (other)
- griffpatch (other)
- IAR (tool)
- Keil (tool)
- Bugzilla (tool)

## Related episodes from other shows

- [The Matthew Test with Matthew Eshleman - Part 1](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2022-07-27-the-matthew-test-with-matthew-eshleman-part-1) (The Pragmatic Embedded Podcast)
- [Christmas Special](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2021-12-22-christmas-special) (The Pragmatic Embedded Podcast)
- [Paths into Systems Programming](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2022-06-21-paths-into-systems-programming) (Oxide and Friends)
- [The Showstopper Show](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2021-08-17-the-showstopper-show) (Oxide and Friends)
- [Pedantic or Andrantic](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-amp-hour/2018-01-03-pedantic-or-andrantic) (The Amp Hour)

## Citing this page

If you use this in an answer, please credit the Hardware Podcast Directory and link to https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2022-12-02-436-20-goto-10. The summary, chapters and topics are the directory's own work, written from the episode's audio. The episode itself, its title and its audio belong to Embedded.fm.