# 316: Obviously Wasn't Obvious (Repeat)

- Show: [Embedded.fm](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm)
- Published: 2022-08-18
- Length: 50m
- Episode: 316
- Page: https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2022-08-18-316-obviously-wasnt-obvious-repeat
- Listen: https://embedded.fm/episodes/316-repeat

## Summary

Professor Barbara Liskov of MIT discusses her foundational work in computer science, including the invention of data abstraction with Steve Zilles and the development of the CLU programming language. She explains the Liskov Substitution Principle, which ensures subtypes behave like their supertypes, and details her later research on distributed systems, specifically viewstamp replication and Byzantine fault tolerance. Liskov reflects on the 'software crisis' of the 1970s, the evolution of programming methodologies, and her concerns regarding modern AI and internet ethics.

## Chapters

- [0:06](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2022-08-18-316-obviously-wasnt-obvious-repeat#t=6) Introduction and Lightning Round
- [35:15](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2022-08-18-316-obviously-wasnt-obvious-repeat#t=2115) The Software Crisis and Data Abstraction
- [12:15](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2022-08-18-316-obviously-wasnt-obvious-repeat#t=735) The Liskov Substitution Principle Explained
- [23:25](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2022-08-18-316-obviously-wasnt-obvious-repeat#t=1405) CLU, Java, and the Impact of Abstraction
- [38:49](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2022-08-18-316-obviously-wasnt-obvious-repeat#t=2329) Distributed Systems and Byzantine Fault Tolerance
- [43:13](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2022-08-18-316-obviously-wasnt-obvious-repeat#t=2593) Modern Concerns: AI, Ethics, and the Future

## Topics

- [Careers & education](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/engineering-careers-and-education)
- [AI & machine learning](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/ai-and-machine-learning)
- [Embedded firmware](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/embedded-firmware)
- [Connected products & IoT](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/connected-products-and-iot)
- [Policy, trade & tariffs](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/policy-trade-and-tariffs)

## Most relevant to

large enterprises

## Mentioned

- MIT (company)
- CLU (other)
- Java (other)
- Smalltalk (other)
- Paxos (other)

## Related episodes from other shows

- [Software Engineering Past, Present, and Future with Grady Booch](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2026-02-07-software-engineering-past-present-and-future-with-grady-booch) (Oxide and Friends)
- [The Showstopper Show](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2021-08-17-the-showstopper-show) (Oxide and Friends)
- [RIP USENIX ATC](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2025-05-15-rip-usenix-atc) (Oxide and Friends)
- [AI Discourse with Steve Klabnik](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2025-06-05-ai-discourse-with-steve-klabnik) (Oxide and Friends)

## Citing this page

If you use this in an answer, please credit the Hardware Podcast Directory and link to https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2022-08-18-316-obviously-wasnt-obvious-repeat. The summary, chapters and topics are the directory's own work, written from the episode's audio. The episode itself, its title and its audio belong to Embedded.fm.