# 402: We Are a Lazy Species

- Show: [Embedded.fm](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm)
- Published: 2022-02-18
- Length: 1h 27m
- Episode: 402
- Page: https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2022-02-18-402-we-are-a-lazy-species
- Listen: https://embedded.fm/episodes/402

## Summary

Chris Svec of iRobot and Phillip Johnston of Embedded Artistry join hosts Elecia and Christopher White to debate the value and methods of estimating software schedules. They discuss why estimation is difficult, the necessity of feedback loops for improvement, and how to handle fixed-bid projects with clients. The conversation covers the role of trust in engineering teams, the use of Gantt charts for dependency management, and the analogy of estimating travel time to justify software estimates.

## Chapters

- [0:07](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2022-02-18-402-we-are-a-lazy-species#t=7) Introduction and Lightning Round
- [5:27](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2022-02-18-402-we-are-a-lazy-species#t=327) The Debate: Are Software Estimates Possible?
- [12:06](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2022-02-18-402-we-are-a-lazy-species#t=726) Why Estimation is Difficult and Necessary
- [31:17](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2022-02-18-402-we-are-a-lazy-species#t=1877) Phillip Johnston's Fixed-Bid Consulting Model
- [41:31](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2022-02-18-402-we-are-a-lazy-species#t=2491) Estimation as Part of Design and Dependency Mapping
- [49:13](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2022-02-18-402-we-are-a-lazy-species#t=2953) Bad Uses of Estimates and Toxic Management
- [1:12:19](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2022-02-18-402-we-are-a-lazy-species#t=4339) The Travel Time Analogy and Final Thoughts

## Topics

- [Careers & education](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/engineering-careers-and-education)
- [Leadership, teams & culture](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/leadership-and-culture)
- [Pricing, margins & unit economics](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/pricing-and-unit-economics)
- [AI & machine learning](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/ai-and-machine-learning)

## Most relevant to

early-stage companies, large enterprises

## Mentioned

- iRobot (company)
- Embedded Artistry (company)
- Agile Otter (other)
- FogBugz (tool)
- Microsoft Project (tool)
- Gantt charts (tool)

## Related episodes from other shows

- [Project Management Dysfunctions - Part 1](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2022-06-21-project-management-dysfunctions-part-1) (The Pragmatic Embedded Podcast)
- [How to Get Started](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2021-02-02-how-to-get-started) (The Pragmatic Embedded Podcast)
- [2024 christmas special](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2024-12-29-2024-christmas-special) (The Pragmatic Embedded Podcast)
- [Agile Manifesto Part 2](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2022-03-23-agile-manifesto-part-2) (The Pragmatic Embedded Podcast)
- [Agile is Old-Fashioned Engineering](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-pragmatic-embedded-podcast/2021-03-30-agile-is-old-fashioned-engineering) (The Pragmatic Embedded Podcast)

## Citing this page

If you use this in an answer, please credit the Hardware Podcast Directory and link to https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2022-02-18-402-we-are-a-lazy-species. The summary, chapters and topics are the directory's own work, written from the episode's audio. The episode itself, its title and its audio belong to Embedded.fm.