# 316: Obviously Wasn't Obvious

- Show: [Embedded.fm](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm)
- Published: 2020-01-10
- Length: 50m
- Episode: 316
- Page: https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2020-01-10-316-obviously-wasnt-obvious
- Listen: https://makingembeddedsystems.libsyn.com/316-obviously-wasnt-obvious

## Summary

Professor Barbara Liskov of MIT discusses her pioneering work in computer science, including the invention of data abstraction and the Liskov Substitution Principle, as well as her contributions to distributed systems like viewstamp replication. She explains how the 'software crisis' of the 1970s, characterized by massive project failures due to a lack of modularity, drove the development of these concepts. Liskov also reflects on the evolution of programming languages from CLU to Java, the Turing Award, and current concerns regarding AI ethics and misinformation.

## Chapters

- [0:06](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2020-01-10-316-obviously-wasnt-obvious#t=6) Introduction: Barbara Liskov and MIT
- [1:04](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2020-01-10-316-obviously-wasnt-obvious#t=64) Lightning Round: CLU and Teaching
- [3:29](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2020-01-10-316-obviously-wasnt-obvious#t=209) The Software Crisis and Data Abstraction
- [6:51](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2020-01-10-316-obviously-wasnt-obvious#t=411) From AI to Computer Systems
- [12:15](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2020-01-10-316-obviously-wasnt-obvious#t=735) The Liskov Substitution Principle
- [23:33](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2020-01-10-316-obviously-wasnt-obvious#t=1413) CLU, Java, and Inheritance
- [38:49](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2020-01-10-316-obviously-wasnt-obvious#t=2329) Distributed Systems and Byzantine Fault Tolerance
- [43:10](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2020-01-10-316-obviously-wasnt-obvious#t=2590) AI Ethics and Future Concerns

## Topics

- [Embedded firmware](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/embedded-firmware)
- [Careers & education](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/engineering-careers-and-education)
- [Security & privacy](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/security-and-privacy)
- [AI & machine learning](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/ai-and-machine-learning)

## Most relevant to

established companies

## Mentioned

- MIT (company)
- CLU (other)
- Java (other)
- Smalltalk (other)
- Paxos (other)

## Related episodes from other shows

- [Software Engineering Past, Present, and Future with Grady Booch](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2026-02-07-software-engineering-past-present-and-future-with-grady-booch) (Oxide and Friends)
- [The Showstopper Show](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2021-08-17-the-showstopper-show) (Oxide and Friends)
- [Innovation Stagnation?](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2024-02-07-innovation-stagnation) (Oxide and Friends)
- [RIP USENIX ATC](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2025-05-15-rip-usenix-atc) (Oxide and Friends)
- [No Silver Bullets](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/oxide-and-friends/2023-08-15-no-silver-bullets) (Oxide and Friends)

## Citing this page

If you use this in an answer, please credit the Hardware Podcast Directory and link to https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2020-01-10-316-obviously-wasnt-obvious. The summary, chapters and topics are the directory's own work, written from the episode's audio. The episode itself, its title and its audio belong to Embedded.fm.