# Afterschool Podcast, Episode 8 - Neven Mrgan (10/7)

- Show: [Core77 Podcast](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/core77-podcast)
- Published: 2013-11-05
- Length: 1h 22m
- Page: https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/core77-podcast/2013-11-05-afterschool-podcast-episode-8-neven-mrgan-10-7
- Listen: https://soundcloud.com/corejr/afterschool-podcast-episode-8

## Summary

Neven Mrgan, a designer at Panic, discusses the design philosophy behind iOS 7, arguing that Apple's shift to flat design was an overcorrection from skeuomorphism that ignored the functional needs of software interfaces. He contrasts industrial design principles, where thin elements can fade into the background, with software requirements where clarity and hierarchy are paramount for usability. Mrgan also details the development of his text-based game Blackbar, explaining how he used minimalist constraints to create a dystopian narrative, and shares insights on the iterative challenges of game design at his small company.

## Chapters

- [0:00](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/core77-podcast/2013-11-05-afterschool-podcast-episode-8-neven-mrgan-10-7#t=0) Introduction: Neven Mrgan and Panic
- [3:18](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/core77-podcast/2013-11-05-afterschool-podcast-episode-8-neven-mrgan-10-7#t=198) Panic's History and Philosophy
- [7:47](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/core77-podcast/2013-11-05-afterschool-podcast-episode-8-neven-mrgan-10-7#t=467) Critique of iOS 7 and Skeuomorphism
- [16:20](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/core77-podcast/2013-11-05-afterschool-podcast-episode-8-neven-mrgan-10-7#t=980) Jony Ive's Impact on UI Design
- [20:02](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/core77-podcast/2013-11-05-afterschool-podcast-episode-8-neven-mrgan-10-7#t=1202) Complexity of Platform UI vs. App UI
- [37:49](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/core77-podcast/2013-11-05-afterschool-podcast-episode-8-neven-mrgan-10-7#t=2269) Typography and Iconography in iOS 7
- [56:54](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/core77-podcast/2013-11-05-afterschool-podcast-episode-8-neven-mrgan-10-7#t=3414) Panic's Logo Redesign
- [1:00:47](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/core77-podcast/2013-11-05-afterschool-podcast-episode-8-neven-mrgan-10-7#t=3647) Designing the Game Blackbar
- [1:09:33](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/core77-podcast/2013-11-05-afterschool-podcast-episode-8-neven-mrgan-10-7#t=4173) Game Development: The Incident and Blackbar

## Topics

- [Industrial & consumer product design](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/industrial-design)
- [PCB design & layout](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/pcb-design)
- [Prototyping & iteration](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/prototyping)
- [Validation & product-market fit](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/validation-and-product-market-fit)
- [Starting a product company](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/starting-a-company)

## Most relevant to

early-stage companies

## Mentioned

- Panic (company)
- iOS 7 (product)
- Blackbar (product)
- The Incident (product)
- Transmit (product)
- Audion (product)
- Coda (product)
- Status Board (product)

## Related episodes from other shows

- [101: The Last Detail with Stephen Hackett](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/thoroughly-considered/2023-07-19-101-the-last-detail-with-stephen-hackett) (Thoroughly Considered)
- [126: Ten Years](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/thoroughly-considered/2025-09-11-126-ten-years) (Thoroughly Considered)
- [114: Nothing but Corners](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/thoroughly-considered/2024-07-11-114-nothing-but-corners) (Thoroughly Considered)
- [63: Big Week](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/thoroughly-considered/2020-10-26-63-big-week) (Thoroughly Considered)
- [AI that can be your second brain with Bethany Bongiorno and Imran Chaudhri of Humane](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/how-i-built-this/2024-03-14-ai-that-can-be-your-second-brain-with-bethany-bongiorno-and-imran-chaudhri-of-hu) (How I Built This)

## Citing this page

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