# Is now the time for DERs to scale? [re-published]

- Show: [Catalyst](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst)
- Published: 2026-08-13
- Length: 42m
- Page: https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2026-08-13-is-now-the-time-for-ders-to-scale-re-published

## Summary

Shayle Kann and Andy Lubershane of Energy Impact Partners discuss why Distributed Energy Resources (DERs) are finally ready to scale after a decade of stagnation. They argue that while the market previously lacked the desperation for grid flexibility, current transmission and interconnection bottlenecks have created a critical need for dispatchable capacity. The conversation highlights the evolution from simple demand response to Virtual Power Plants (VPPs) aggregating thermostats, batteries, and EVs, noting that falling hardware costs and rising grid stress are finally aligning to make DERs a viable alternative to traditional infrastructure upgrades.

## Chapters

- [1:28](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2026-08-13-is-now-the-time-for-ders-to-scale-re-published#t=88) Introduction: Shayle Kann and Andy Lubershane on DERs
- [5:42](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2026-08-13-is-now-the-time-for-ders-to-scale-re-published#t=342) Categorizing DERs: Dispatchable vs. Non-Dispatchable Resources
- [12:19](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2026-08-13-is-now-the-time-for-ders-to-scale-re-published#t=739) Why DERs Failed in 2015: Lack of Grid Need and High Costs
- [24:32](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2026-08-13-is-now-the-time-for-ders-to-scale-re-published#t=1472) Why Now is Different: Grid Bottlenecks and Falling Hardware Costs
- [29:13](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2026-08-13-is-now-the-time-for-ders-to-scale-re-published#t=1753) The Rise of Virtual Power Plants (VPPs) and Grid Operator Comfort
- [34:26](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2026-08-13-is-now-the-time-for-ders-to-scale-re-published#t=2066) Demand Response vs. VPPs: Aggregating Smaller Resources
- [37:35](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2026-08-13-is-now-the-time-for-ders-to-scale-re-published#t=2255) Scenarios for 2030: The Bull Case for Utility Programmatic Deployment
- [39:54](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2026-08-13-is-now-the-time-for-ders-to-scale-re-published#t=2394) The Bear Case: Supply Chain, Fire Codes, and Utility Hesitancy

## Topics

- [Connected products & IoT](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/connected-products-and-iot)
- [Policy, trade & tariffs](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/policy-trade-and-tariffs)
- [Scaling production](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/scaling-production)
- [Energy & climate tech](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/energy-and-climate-tech)
- [Sourcing & supply chain](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/sourcing-and-supply-chain)

## Most relevant to

early-stage companies

## Mentioned

- Energy Impact Partners (company)
- EnergyHub (company)
- Voltis (company)
- Gridbeyond (company)
- Enchanted Rock (company)
- ERCOT (other)

## Related episodes from other shows

- [Managing Energy At The Edge: Navigating The Modern Grid With Itron](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/over-the-air/2024-09-05-managing-energy-at-the-edge-navigating-the-modern-grid-with-itron) (Over the Air)
- [Solving a Renewables Problem with Electric Vehicles](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/ee-times-current/2021-05-28-solving-a-renewables-problem-with-electric-vehicles) (EE Times Current)
- [213: Electricity Doesn't Act Like an Apple](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2017-08-31-213-electricity-doesnt-act-like-an-apple) (Embedded.fm)
- [Powering EVs: Microgrids & DC Charging Solutions](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/moores-lobby/2025-08-19-powering-evs-microgrids-dc-charging-solutions) (Moore's Lobby)
- [Smart Electrical Panels: Avoiding $25K Upgrades to Enable Home Electrification with Arch Rao](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/hardware-to-save-a-planet/2025-10-16-smart-electrical-panels-avoiding-25k-upgrades-to-enable-home-electrification-wit) (Hardware to Save a Planet)

## Citing this page

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