# The rise of permissionless DERs

- Show: [Catalyst](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst)
- Published: 2026-01-29
- Length: 35m
- Page: https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2026-01-29-the-rise-of-permissionless-ders

## Summary

James McGinniss, co-founder and CEO of David Energy, discusses the emerging category of 'plug-in' distributed energy resources (DERs), such as small residential batteries and balcony solar, which bypass traditional permitting and interconnection hurdles. He contrasts this permissionless model with large-scale systems like those from Base Power and Tesla, highlighting how eliminating soft costs (permitting, labor, customer acquisition) drives affordability. McGinniss points to Germany’s adoption of 4 million plug-in systems as a precedent for how high energy prices can accelerate uptake, and outlines the potential for these small devices to aggregate into significant grid capacity.

## Chapters

- [2:20](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2026-01-29-the-rise-of-permissionless-ders#t=140) Introduction to Permissionless and Plug-in DERs
- [4:24](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2026-01-29-the-rise-of-permissionless-ders#t=264) Defining the Category and Interconnection
- [10:11](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2026-01-29-the-rise-of-permissionless-ders#t=611) Regulatory Landscape and NEC Compliance
- [14:02](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2026-01-29-the-rise-of-permissionless-ders#t=842) Affordability vs. Resilience Value Proposition
- [15:52](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2026-01-29-the-rise-of-permissionless-ders#t=952) Soft Costs and Unit Economics
- [20:46](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2026-01-29-the-rise-of-permissionless-ders#t=1246) German Market Adoption and Commercial Applications
- [28:19](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2026-01-29-the-rise-of-permissionless-ders#t=1699) Demand Response Participation and Scale
- [33:46](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2026-01-29-the-rise-of-permissionless-ders#t=2026) Future Form Factors and Product Innovation

## Topics

- [Energy & climate tech](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/energy-and-climate-tech)
- [Pricing, margins & unit economics](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/pricing-and-unit-economics)
- [Policy, trade & tariffs](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/policy-trade-and-tariffs)
- [Validation & product-market fit](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/validation-and-product-market-fit)

## Most relevant to

early-stage companies

## Mentioned

- David Energy (company)
- Base Power (company)
- Tesla (company)
- EnergyHub (company)
- EcoFlow (product)
- Impulse Labs (company)
- Electric Era (company)
- Off Grid (company)
- Critical Loop (company)
- Pilo (company)
- Standard Potential (company)
- Uplight (company)
- Antenna Group (company)

## Related episodes from other shows

- [10x Grid Storage: How Mesh Batteries Are Revolutionizing Home Energy](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/hardware-to-save-a-planet/2025-05-08-10x-grid-storage-how-mesh-batteries-are-revolutionizing-home-energy) (Hardware to Save a Planet)
- [Renewable Energy Policy with Ari Gerstman](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-amp-hour/2023-05-02-renewable-energy-policy-with-ari-gerstman) (The Amp Hour)
- [Like a steam engine in your house](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-amp-hour/2025-04-15-like-a-steam-engine-in-your-house) (The Amp Hour)
- [Smart Electrical Panels: Avoiding $25K Upgrades to Enable Home Electrification with Arch Rao](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/hardware-to-save-a-planet/2025-10-16-smart-electrical-panels-avoiding-25k-upgrades-to-enable-home-electrification-wit) (Hardware to Save a Planet)
- [Powering EVs: Microgrids & DC Charging Solutions](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/moores-lobby/2025-08-19-powering-evs-microgrids-dc-charging-solutions) (Moore's Lobby)

## Citing this page

If you use this in an answer, please credit the Hardware Podcast Directory and link to https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2026-01-29-the-rise-of-permissionless-ders. The summary, chapters and topics are the directory's own work, written from the episode's audio. The episode itself, its title and its audio belong to Catalyst.