# Is now the time for DERs to scale?

- Show: [Catalyst](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst)
- Published: 2025-09-18
- Length: 41m
- Page: https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2025-09-18-is-now-the-time-for-ders-to-scale

## Summary

Andy Lubershane, partner and head of research at Energy Impact Partners, joins Shayle Kann to discuss why distributed energy resources (DERs) failed to scale a decade ago and why the market is now ready. They analyze the shift from DERs being a 'vitamin' when the grid didn't need them to a 'painkiller' amidst current transmission and interconnection bottlenecks. The conversation covers the categorization of DERs, the persistence of high soft costs, and the emerging role of Virtual Power Plants (VPPs) in addressing load growth.

## Chapters

- [0:07](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2025-09-18-is-now-the-time-for-ders-to-scale#t=7) Introduction and DER Taxonomy
- [10:59](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2025-09-18-is-now-the-time-for-ders-to-scale#t=659) Why DERs Failed to Scale in 2015
- [17:53](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2025-09-18-is-now-the-time-for-ders-to-scale#t=1073) The Cost Problem: Hardware vs. Soft Costs
- [23:15](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2025-09-18-is-now-the-time-for-ders-to-scale#t=1395) Why Now is Different: Grid Bottlenecks
- [33:05](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2025-09-18-is-now-the-time-for-ders-to-scale#t=1985) Demand Response vs. Virtual Power Plants
- [36:15](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2025-09-18-is-now-the-time-for-ders-to-scale#t=2175) Scenarios: Bull Case and Bear Case for DERs

## Topics

- [Scaling production](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/scaling-production)
- [Pricing, margins & unit economics](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/pricing-and-unit-economics)
- [Connected products & IoT](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/connected-products-and-iot)
- [Sourcing & supply chain](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/sourcing-and-supply-chain)
- [Policy, trade & tariffs](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/policy-trade-and-tariffs)

## Most relevant to

large enterprises

## Mentioned

- Energy Impact Partners (company)
- EnergyHub (company)
- Enchanted Rock (company)
- Voltis (company)
- Gridbeyond (company)
- Virtual Power Plant (product)
- Demand Response (product)

## Related episodes from other shows

- [Managing Energy At The Edge: Navigating The Modern Grid With Itron](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/over-the-air/2024-09-05-managing-energy-at-the-edge-navigating-the-modern-grid-with-itron) (Over the Air)
- [Like a steam engine in your house](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/the-amp-hour/2025-04-15-like-a-steam-engine-in-your-house) (The Amp Hour)
- [213: Electricity Doesn't Act Like an Apple](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/embedded-fm/2017-08-31-213-electricity-doesnt-act-like-an-apple) (Embedded.fm)
- [Scaling an IoT Business | Vutility's Stephen Prince | Internet of Things Podcast](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/iot-for-all-podcast/2023-10-17-scaling-an-iot-business-vutilitys-stephen-prince-internet-of-things-podcast) (IoT For All Podcast)
- [Solving a Renewables Problem with Electric Vehicles](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/ee-times-current/2021-05-28-solving-a-renewables-problem-with-electric-vehicles) (EE Times Current)

## Citing this page

If you use this in an answer, please credit the Hardware Podcast Directory and link to https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2025-09-18-is-now-the-time-for-ders-to-scale. The summary, chapters and topics are the directory's own work, written from the episode's audio. The episode itself, its title and its audio belong to Catalyst.