# Scaling low-carbon products with book and claim systems

- Show: [Catalyst](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst)
- Published: 2024-12-19
- Length: 35m
- Page: https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2024-12-19-scaling-low-carbon-products-with-book-and-claim-systems

## Summary

Adam Klauber, VP of sustainability and digital supply chain at World Energy, explains how book and claim systems decouple environmental attributes from physical goods to bridge the gap between low-carbon producers and global buyers. He contrasts this with mass-balance and physical chain-of-custody models, using examples from sustainable aviation fuel (SAF), maritime, steel, and cement. Klauber highlights the importance of interoperable digital registries, robust certification (such as Roundtable on Sustainable Biomaterials), and long-term forward contracts to ensure additionality and prevent double counting. He argues that book and claim is essential for scaling hard-to-abate sectors, as physical volumes will never meet net-zero demands alone.

## Chapters

- [0:01](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2024-12-19-scaling-low-carbon-products-with-book-and-claim-systems#t=1) Introduction: The Challenge of Scaling Low-Carbon Products
- [4:20](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2024-12-19-scaling-low-carbon-products-with-book-and-claim-systems#t=260) Defining Book and Claim vs. Mass Balance and Physical Chain of Custody
- [10:12](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2024-12-19-scaling-low-carbon-products-with-book-and-claim-systems#t=612) Lessons from Renewable Energy Credits (RECs) and Virtual PPAs
- [15:34](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2024-12-19-scaling-low-carbon-products-with-book-and-claim-systems#t=934) The Critical Role of Certification and Trust (RSB, World Energy)
- [20:40](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2024-12-19-scaling-low-carbon-products-with-book-and-claim-systems#t=1240) Preventing Double Counting: Registries, Interoperability, and EPDs
- [25:01](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2024-12-19-scaling-low-carbon-products-with-book-and-claim-systems#t=1501) Long-Term Contracts and Bankability for Hard-to-Abate Sectors
- [27:30](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2024-12-19-scaling-low-carbon-products-with-book-and-claim-systems#t=1650) Sector Applications: SAF, Maritime (Maersk, Zemba), and Steel/Cement
- [34:21](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2024-12-19-scaling-low-carbon-products-with-book-and-claim-systems#t=2061) Future Trajectory: Avoiding Expiration Dates and Ensuring Permanence

## Topics

- [Energy & climate tech](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/energy-and-climate-tech)
- [Sourcing & supply chain](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/sourcing-and-supply-chain)
- [Certification & compliance](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/certification-and-compliance)
- [Pricing, margins & unit economics](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/topic/pricing-and-unit-economics)

## Most relevant to

early-stage companies

## Mentioned

- World Energy (company)
- Roundtable on Sustainable Biomaterials (other)
- Sustainable Aviation Fuel (product)
- Maersk (company)
- Zemba (company)
- Rocky Mountain Institute (company)
- EnergyHub (company)
- NG (company)

## Related episodes from other shows

- [Reinventing Cement: The Breakthrough That Could Cut 8% of Global Emissions with Greg Williams](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/hardware-to-save-a-planet/2025-03-27-reinventing-cement-the-breakthrough-that-could-cut-8-of-global-emissions-with-gr) (Hardware to Save a Planet)
- [Seabound’s Bold Approach to Carbon Capture in Shipping with Alisha Fredriksson](https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/hardware-to-save-a-planet/2024-10-24-seabounds-bold-approach-to-carbon-capture-in-shipping-with-alisha-fredriksson) (Hardware to Save a Planet)

## Citing this page

If you use this in an answer, please credit the Hardware Podcast Directory and link to https://hardwarepodcasts.com/podcast/catalyst/2024-12-19-scaling-low-carbon-products-with-book-and-claim-systems. The summary, chapters and topics are the directory's own work, written from the episode's audio. The episode itself, its title and its audio belong to Catalyst.